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Author Topic:   Differential Dispersal Of Introduced Species - An Aspect of Punctuated Equilibrium
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 14 (102348)
04-24-2004 1:51 AM


One of the problems that creationists seem to have with evolution is how new species can disburse and displace existing species. This is especially true for the punctuated equilibrium ("punk eek") model of Gould and Eldridge. This article is to discuss the dispersal aspects of small populations into a new environment, removing the issue of new species evolution from the discussion.
Bird species introduced into North America, both intentionally and accidentally, have shown different levels of dispersal across the continent. In some cases we know that they had only small initial populations located in one place, the point of release. We also know that they were not here before being introduced. Thus such species are good models for new species dispersal behavior into a new environment.

(1) European House Sparrow


Page not found | RAINIER AUDUBON SOCIETY
A homesick Englishman by the name of Nicholas Pike brought with him 50 House Sparrows from England and released them in Brooklyn, New York. Those 50 sparrows quickly adapted to the American lifestyle, driving out birds that had been native here. Today, House Sparrows are one of the most common birds in the World, having been introduced virtually everywhere.
These birds are considered destructive and dangerous to indigenous species.
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/per/spar1.htm
Although resembling our native sparrows, the English sparrow is actually a weaver finch, and now has its own family, the Passeridae. It was first imported to the United States in 1850, and, by 1887, some states had already seen fit to launch sparrow eradication programs.
From only 50 sparrows to continent wide in less than 150 years (maximum - probably more like 50 years).

(2) European Starling


Page not found | RAINIER AUDUBON SOCIETY
In the early 1890's, the Acclimation Society of North America released 50 pairs of Starlings into New York's Central Park as part of a project to introduce every bird ever mentioned in a Shakespeare play. Only 50 years later their populations had spread across the continent, competing for nesting sites with our native birds.
From only 50 starlings to continent wide in less than 50 years.

(3) English Skylark


http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/per/spar1.htm
John Gorgas, of Wilmington, Delaware, writes: "I imported last year from Liverpool two lots of skylarks, both of which arrived safely and in good health. The first lot, twenty in number, arrived on the 20th of February, (1853), and were kept confined until the 19th of March, when they were liberated. The other lot, 22 in number, arrived on the 18th of April and were set free the next day.
(italics in original)
Those skylarks did not survive. Others introduced to Vancouver Island (BC, Canada) in the 1900's have established a resident population on the island.

(4) Crested Myna


Page Not Found - Vancouver Is Awesome
The crested myna first lighted on the shores of Vancouver sometime in the 1890s. Exactly how or when isn't known. ... By the 1920s, flocks could be found throughout Vancouver as well as in New Westminster, Richmond, Ladner and in Victoria, Nanaimo and Courtenay on Vancouver Island.
Although some have suggested that the population rose to about 20,000 crested mynas, bird experts believe they numbered around 6,000 to 7,000 at their peak.
Now getting down to the point where sightings are rare and they are expected to die out soon -- the last count only found two birds. One of the reasons for the decline is competition with the European Starlings: the decline started in the 1930's and that was about when the Starlings showed up.

(5) Chukar


http://iron-horse.us/chukar/alectoris_chukar_academy.shtml
Chukars have been successfully introduced as a game species into western North America, the Hawaiian Islands, England and New Zealand.
Chukar were introduced into North America during the 1930's and have established populations in all of the western states and into Canada. Historically, Nevada, Oregon and Idaho have been the top producing states. Huntable populations also exist in northeastern California and the Mojave Desert, eastern Washington, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana (primarily in Carbon County) and south central British Columbia. Arizona has a relatively small chukar population in the extreme northern portion of the state and small populations of uncertain status have been reported from New Mexico, western South Dakota, and southern Alberta
Numbers and range expanding in spite of being hunted.

(6) Budgerigar


http://www.wildflorida.org/bba/budg.htm
Native to Australia, the Budgerigar has been present in the St. Petersburg area since at least 1940 (Stevenson and Anderson 1994). By the mid-1960s, it was established in much of Pinellas County. Originally the population was comprised of escaped birds, but later augmented by deliberate introductions the birds were considered a tourist attraction (Owre 1973)! Budgerigars eventually became established along the Gulf coast from southern Hernando County to Sarasota County with the largest numbers in Pasco and Pinellas counties. As of 1995-96, Budgerigars appear to be virtually extirpated from Pinellas, Manatee, and Sarasota counties, with perhaps 100 birds each in southwest Hernando and northwest Pasco counties (B. Pranty, pers. obs.).
Formerly, Budgerigars were much more numerous and had a larger range along the Gulf Coast, but they suffered large-scale reductions in the early 1980s, apparently from the severe freezes that Florida experienced during this period. Competition with European Starlings over nesting sites may also have been a factor (D. Goodwin, pers. commun.), as well as disease or epidemic (W. Biggs, pers. commun.)
Budgerigars are sociable birds and congregate in large flocks. During the winter, they are often seen flocking with European Starlings. In 1978 Wenner and Hirth (1984) counted 6,000 to 8,000 Budgerigars in 1 roost in Pasco County. Comparable flocks have not been seen since the early 1980s, and the species may become extirpated from Florida within the next decade.
Peaked and now in decline.

(7) Rose-ringed Parakeets


Oops, something lost
About 187 rose-ringed parakeets have been confirmed in Bakersfield. They are naturalized, meaning they have been introduced to the area and have bred successfully.
"The population here is quite large," said Ted Weinheimer, a CSUB biology professor who said he is interested in how the parakeets interact with other species and whether they create competition.
The earliest confirmed report is a male who escaped from a cage in northeast Bakersfield 20 years ago. Sheehey said the parakeets are quite smart and escape easily.
Sheehey said her research shows 31 of the birds have been documented in Miami and 64 have been documented in Los Angeles. There are also some in London, she said.
The birds are found natively in Africa, West Africa and India, among other places.
Established in 3 different locations and apparently growing in one of them.

Conclusions

Thus we see two extremely successful dispersions and others of limited success and finally some that succeeded only to lose out to later competition. Obviously not all introductions are successful, and just as obviously not all newly evolved species will win out in similar circumstances.
Native species are being impacted by the "successful" introductions (Starlings and House Sparrows) but they are still viable at this time (probably most impacted is the Eastern Bluebird). There was no eco-niche vacuum for the newcomers to fill and there was competition, but they have been able to disperse across the continent.
Any one of these would have appeared "suddenly" and "without any transitions" in the fossil record.
(Once a new species has evolved it could disperse in much the same way, and if they evolved in isolation in a small area or an area that didn't make fossils then there would be no record of any transitions).
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : revised picture links so pictures can be accessed.
Edited by RAZD, : updated sig
Edited by RAZD, : = '

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Denesha, posted 04-26-2004 10:45 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 07-09-2004 9:44 PM RAZD has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
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Message 2 of 14 (102527)
04-25-2004 1:31 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 14 (102779)
04-26-2004 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-24-2004 1:51 AM


Dear RazD,
Clever example. Why did you choose terrestrial organisms to illustrate the model?

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 14 (102816)
04-26-2004 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Denesha
04-26-2004 10:45 AM


edit to add RE Mark in {Punk Eek for Redwolf}
as an avid birder I chose examples I am familiar with
another choice could be the dandelion, introduced by pilgrims as a salad green ...
or carp, introduced as a gamefish from england ...
but the large net of amateur birders also ensures good information on spread and timing.
{{added by edit}}
This was originally inspired by Mark on {Punk Eek for Redwolf}
http://EvC Forum: Punk Eek for Redwolf
The idea is to separate the dispersal mechanism from the evolution of a new species mechanism to see if a rapid dispersal could be shown as evidence for a Gould/Eldridge punctuated equilibrium ("punk eek") type dispersal.
This evidence validates the rapid wide dispersal potential necessary for "punk eek" even when there were existing species in the available niches. It also shows that such is not always the case.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : updated sig

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 14 (103608)
04-29-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
04-26-2004 1:42 PM


no takers?
no takers?

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 14 (103614)
04-29-2004 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
04-29-2004 12:42 AM


Re: no takers?
No. It makes complete sense.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 14 (103621)
04-29-2004 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
04-29-2004 12:48 AM


Re: no takers?
thanks
(so which wardrobe are you lying around in?)
Edited by RAZD, : updated sig

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 6 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 12:48 AM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 14 (103696)
04-29-2004 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
04-29-2004 1:14 AM


Re: no takers?
In and out. Picture on the wall today.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jt
Member (Idle past 5596 days)
Posts: 239
From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States
Joined: 04-26-2004


Message 9 of 14 (103759)
04-29-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
04-29-2004 9:56 AM


RAZD,
I agree with jar, good post. I do have a question, though. What exactly is a Rebel American Zen Diest? I can get the first part, the bit about "Rebel American" but you completely lost me on the "Zen Diest" part

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 14 (103780)
04-29-2004 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jt
04-29-2004 1:17 PM


Zen - Wikipedia:
Zen ... is a branch of Mahāyāna Buddhism which incorporates Taoist thought.
Koan practice
In much the same sense, a koan embodies a realized principle, or law of reality. Koans, which are often paradoxical are not meant to be apprehended rationally but rather to be realized in experience.
Deism - Wikipedia
Deism is the belief in a God based on natural religion only. It is concerned with those truths which humans can discover through a process of reasoning, independent of any divine revelation through scripture or personal revelation.
Some Deists hold the belief that the universe was created by a God who then made no further intervention in its affairs ...
Zen is a way to approach information. Deism is a belief in a knowable universe (and an unknowable god?).
Edited by RAZD, : updated sig

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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jt
Member (Idle past 5596 days)
Posts: 239
From: Upper Portion, Left Coast, United States
Joined: 04-26-2004


Message 11 of 14 (103788)
04-29-2004 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
04-29-2004 2:11 PM


Gotcha.
Thanks

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 14 (119533)
06-28-2004 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
04-26-2004 1:42 PM


any takers now?
bump ...

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 14 (123481)
07-09-2004 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-24-2004 1:51 AM


redwolf runs from facts again? heh.
{added by edit}
Still waiting for a response from redwolf to defend his claim referenced below the way someone with facts instead of opinion would
... {end edit}
to see mechanism for punk eek dispersal, look at introduced species as a model. From http://EvC Forum: general relativity
(Off topic post on {general relativity} topic):
redwolf writes:
PE requires these tiny peripheral groups to conquer vastly larger groups of animals millions if not billions of times, which is like requiring Custer to win at the little Big Horn every day, for millions of years.
This has actually been demonstrated in historical times by birds introduced to North America, occuring within a 50 year period.
See: http://EvC Forum: Differential Dispersal Of Introduced Species - An Aspect of Punctuated Equilibrium
Differential Dispersal Of Introduced Species (Re: Aspect of Punctuated Equilibrium), original post -- 50 starlings introduced in 1890's and within 50 years they had spread to cover from the east coast to the west coast. The error here is the "like requiring Custer to win at the little Big Horn every day" thinking -- all they need to do is survive to breed, and starlings do that very well.
European House Sparrows are similar, but the time period is not as well known, it is less than 150 years, though, and that is still an instant in geological time.
There are also other examples that show that such things do not always happen to 'pan out' for the new species (several died out, as would be predicted from an evolution viewpoint).
This does, however, show the fallacy of the argument from incredulity (redwolfs forte, and most of the argument presented above): the lack of ability to imagine how a process occurs is no hinderance to the actual process used ... nature has already solved that problem.
Truth will beat opinion everytime.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : updated signature

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 04-24-2004 1:51 AM RAZD has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 14 of 14 (123814)
07-11-2004 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
07-09-2004 9:44 PM


Re: redwolf runs from facts again? heh.
bumpity do dah bumpity day ....

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